I wanted to offer a different perspective here. I am not judging anyone who chose or experienced things differently from me. My comment is self-reflection.
I used to think our couples therapy was “toxic” because my therapist validated my husband’s feelings and concerns and not just mine. Back then, I knew what the problems in our marriage were and they were almost exclusively his. Though I vaguely acknowledged that I probably contributed something to the dysfunction, I couldn’t articulate how. I saw our therapist validating him as a way of enabling him.
I thought a licensed therapist should help him see all the things he needed to change. I came in armed with therapy-speak like “mental load” and “emotional labor”, tearfully explaining why my husband was f-ing up and how much he was hurting me. I was waiting for the Terry Real moment — for the therapist to turn to him and show him wounded child.
I had heard this from women in my life and on TikTok. I adopted their words as the language for my own unhappiness. I was unhappy! And it was definitely my husband’s fault.
But then I noticed that loads of those same women divorced, fell in love, and then were making similar complaints in short order about the next man. And then the next. Was the problem just immature men? Or was there a common denominator in the women too?
In truth, it’s probably
both. To be clear, I knew my husband had his role. He did need to grow. But the light bulb moment for me was when I realized that my power resided in how I chose to conduct myself — in how I treated him and how well I chose to love him, regardless of whether I felt he “deserved” it.
I had to learn how to step out of my own pain and frustration so I could hold his. I learned how to create joy and peace for myself and not outsource it to him or others. I gave cheerfully rather than counting all the things I thought were unfair. I cultivated gratitude in place of bitterness and resentment. By focusing on myself, I (slowly) stopped obsessing over his faults.
Over time, he reciprocated. Never exactly in the way I wanted. And I learned to accept and love him as he was, not for who I wanted him to become.
I went first. Not him. I changed and that changed our marriage. I do not see that as losing myself. I felt 10-feet tall for the first time in a long time. I actually liked myself and my life, which I was actively writing in my own hand, not his.
To be clear, I don't think a therapist validating your spouse's perspective is toxic. I'm glad you were able to alter your perspective and retain your marriage. I don't think anyone is thinking the men are the only problem. It is the dynamic. It is the dance. I don't think many divorced women are remarrying and facing the same situation. Most divorced women I know never want to reenter that arena because they know the fights will be the same. That there is something inherent in hetero marriage that can leave you trapped in a soul destroying situation. I also think that some pairings are particularly painful to each person. And if it doesn't get better, aka neither one of your feels loved and respected the way you want to be loved and respected, it is best to get out than to continually inflict harm on one another all in service to an ideal, aka the never ending marriage.
I love this for you! It really makes me happy that you were able to navigate towards this new dynamic. I know exactly what you’re talking about with people leaving a relationship, just to find themselves in a similar situation. It’s something I’ve feared for myself, and so I’ve spent the last several years learning to tend to my own needs, validate myself, focus on the things that bring me joy, appreciate the good around me. But, for us, this ended up making things worse. I think the dynamics of our relationship are just far too tangled and our dynamics have become incredibly toxic. Outside of the relationship, I can find peace of mind, happiness, joy. But together, it’s just constant conflict. I mean, am I missing something?! Does it take more than a few years?! How’d you do it?! I really love the life we built together, but I don’t like who we’ve become together. It’s just wild…
I’m so glad you’ve grown so much and have peace and joy regardless of what your spouse does! Only each person knows if/when enough time has passed to see whether anything will take root. For me, it took a few years. Our growth was so slow, we almost missed the new shoots coming up.
Also, Cindy, asking rhetorically, how is it that you affirming or complimenting his essence is going to make a dent in his behavior when the patriarchy is raining down on him with validation of his behaviors?! You can’t compete! Just a bit of affirmation for ya! 💗
I avoid couples who wear the longevity of their marriage on their sleeve. There should be NO prize for staying married. I am divorced, and I stayed married way too long. It's normal for people to change and grow. It's nice to grow at the same rate and in the same direction, but it's not a given. There should be no shame for moving on when it's necessary.
Yes! It would be good if we all avoid praising people who wear any of their "accomplishments" on their sleeve -- whether it is a long marriage, the number of children/grandchildren they have, or their career accomplishments. The best, most honorable people I have known in my life don't show any of it "on their sleeve" - they are not publicly lauded and applauded (so many pretend to humbly accept praise, but in fact they set up the situation in which they are "surprised" by public praise!), but instead quietly keep doing what is right. May God send us more of these, please.
I had a useless couples therapist who couldn’t spot coercive control, took his side in everything, and gave me “intimacy exercises” instead of an escape plan! She just helped him torture me further. For a year.
Oh my god that phrase “intimacy exercises instead of an escape plan” could have been the title of this piece! I’m so sorry that happened but sadly I think it is all too common when therapists aren’t trained to identify these forms of abuse.
Ooooh, can't wait to listen! I do think that for the first time people are unpacking something that we have just assumed is a positive for the ways it can do damage.
I am finding a particularly harmful couple's therapy guru (particularly in Christian and Catholic ciricles) is called The Gottman Institute. They are nationally (possibly internationally) known and lauded. They claim that they rule out abuse first, but how do they rule it out? Their therapist missed the boat on tons of stories I have heard. Also, how often do they rule out the abuse? There should be a "check" done at least once a month during therapy to be sure no red flags of abuse are there. Horrifyingly, Gottman Institute also claims that only a small percentage of the couples they "help" are dealing with "characterological" (as opposed to "situational" anger) abusive person. I think they are dead wrong on the magnitude of the problem. I think many, many couples are dealing with a characterologically abusive person (ie permanently abusive rather than situation to situation). All of their researched seems skewed due to this. I really think they are dangerous if they so easily dismiss abusive persons. Besides - look at their website - the Gottman couple's own photo is EVERYWHERE on it -- totally look like it's about them, not about helping others. Wish the Christian world would wake up to them.
This is exactly what I need to read right now as my husband and I start couples counseling next week. Thank you for sharing!
I have also been harmed by therapists in the past- I had a therapist see me and a former partner while he was in active addiction- which is WILD and soooo unethical. Looking back I'm furious at how much money I spent when I clearly needed to leave that relationship ASAP. She was also my personal therapist which is even grosser.
Also the thrall of monogamy culture and lack of sexual education for many many therapists and confronting their own biases really impacts marriage family counseling. I had a therapist shame me and my oldest child's son when were attempting open relating... while I'm glad I am no longer in that relationship, I do see how harmful her insistence on us stopping our other relationships instead of actually MEETING US where we were at reinforced some awful beliefs about sexuality and intimate life. Not to mention other individual counselors who have shamed me.
Thankfully now I have a wonderful personal therapist, and this couples counselor we meet with next week after in initial intake seems well versed and skilled. He understood right away what I meant when I mentioned the gender care gap and gendered norms in cis-het marriages. so wish us luck!
My couples therapy was pretty bad, and expensive, and didn't save the marriage. After the first meeting, the therapist pulled me aside to tell me that the marriage was abusive—that I was being abused. But instead of having the sense to get out then, I stuck it out for two more years trying to become somebody my ex would be nice to.
I think our therapist was trying to get me to realize that the situation was hopeless, but my conditioning to never give up was too strong. I don't know if the problem was that the lesson wasn't clear, or that I was just too dull to grasp it.
Was our therapy a success or a failure? I'm still not sure.
Well, I am glad that therapist did that but I also know that sometimes we cannot see the abuse until we see it with our own eyes. And yes, the conditioning to make it work is SO strong no matter your background. You put in the work, you stick it out, you try another therapist. This is what I wish we could address more. That forever love is not the goal if it doesn't feel like love.
That's great the counselor privately told you their concerns! Did the therapist offer your trauma-related/abuse-related resources like an abuse counselor? That might have been a next step. It has got to become more normal for all counselors to first STOP and assess (really, truly, deeply) assess whether there is any chance that abuse is happening. Almost like, counselors should send the couple individaully to an abuse evaluator or something. Ofcourse, malignant abusers will know how to play off this...
Ooof… this hit hard. I’ve spent the last week wondering if I should email an old couple’s therapist who caused me significant damage with her advice, without really knowing or understanding our history or the problems affecting our marriage. She just saw my anger and resentments and said that was the problem. Not the reason behind my anger, not the fact that the pattern I was angry about was happening before her very eyes and she couldn’t recognize it. We’ve seen several marriage counselors and it’s only illuminated the problems of our dynamics further while tiptoeing around the solutions (if there even were any) and telling us to “trust the process.” Now I see how incompatible we are given our personality types and I just wish one of these therapists would’ve just called it out for us.
I'm so sorry this was your experience. I get it that no one can tell you your marriage is over except yourself (or your spouse). But I do wish there was more of a process when you start therapy of giving it a certain amount of time and then you do a check in and yes, ideally, the therapist provides advice as to whether improvements are being made or whether this is an intractable battle. That there were more easy off ramps to marriage and that these professionals helped you get there. I feel like couples therapists are there to maintain the marriage and then you need a divorce coach once you decide to leave. Ideally marriage therapists could even help you negotiate some of the terms of your divorce.... they have seen your dynamics firsthand and be a way to help keep things amicable as you go your separate ways. But instead, we tend to just stop seeing them once we decide when we could perhaps really use them in the transition.
Beautifully put, and I’ve often contemplated doing the same thing. My ex was emotionally and financially abusive. Our therapist did so much damage by not acknowledging what was in front of her, and made me feel like I was to blame. I’ll never forget the burning injustice of sitting there wondering what stopped her from calling out what was in front of her, especially since she was much more direct with me than him. I was more willing to cooperate with the process and I think I was just an easier, more malleable person to work with. She really should have known better.
I'm looking forward to reading more of your perspective on this topic! I'm a couples therapist doing Terry Real's training for many of the reasons you mentioned.
Do you think Terry Real is good? I just glanced at the website - unless I'm mistaken, it still seems to prioritize the relationship over the individual, which is backwards. For one, it counsels the couple together which is always a bad idea in abuse. On the other hand, it seems he is trying to bring in actual mental health/personality disorder awareness (rather than the same old hum drum 'communication' talk).
The problem with couples therapy lies in incentives. You're paying for every session with them. The longer you must go to couples therapy, the more money the therapist makes. It's a perverse system. I'm not saying couples therapy can't be helpful or won't help one's relationship, but you have to go in with one simple fact in mind: they want you to keep attending.
I had a similar experience. I wanted to end the marriage, and instead we spent 5 months trying to "reconnect." The therapist suggested we have more sex (since one of my complaints was that we never had sex), but having sex with someone you no longer want to be with did not improve the relationship. Deciding to go our separate ways did.
The two times we tried marital counseling were deeply traumatic for me. The first time, when I said I felt like I was being abused, the counselor interrupted me with a dismissive “no you’re not,” and an eye roll, and then told me I needed to be long suffering with my husband and to read the book Love and Respect.
The second was an intern. My ex husband didn’t show up for the zoom call. I told her some of my concerns about the abuse I was experiencing, and she cut our session short and then told me that I needed to tell him what we discussed, and that if I didn’t, she would. And then she asked me during our next session if I had told him what we’d talked about. She put me in even more danger than I was already in.
Don’t ever ever ever go to couples counseling with an abuser
Sometimes the Viet Nam war is the best model: declare victory and get out. You had a marriage, you made a family, you lived, you learned - now this season is done and that’s fine.
I wanted to offer a different perspective here. I am not judging anyone who chose or experienced things differently from me. My comment is self-reflection.
I used to think our couples therapy was “toxic” because my therapist validated my husband’s feelings and concerns and not just mine. Back then, I knew what the problems in our marriage were and they were almost exclusively his. Though I vaguely acknowledged that I probably contributed something to the dysfunction, I couldn’t articulate how. I saw our therapist validating him as a way of enabling him.
I thought a licensed therapist should help him see all the things he needed to change. I came in armed with therapy-speak like “mental load” and “emotional labor”, tearfully explaining why my husband was f-ing up and how much he was hurting me. I was waiting for the Terry Real moment — for the therapist to turn to him and show him wounded child.
I had heard this from women in my life and on TikTok. I adopted their words as the language for my own unhappiness. I was unhappy! And it was definitely my husband’s fault.
But then I noticed that loads of those same women divorced, fell in love, and then were making similar complaints in short order about the next man. And then the next. Was the problem just immature men? Or was there a common denominator in the women too?
In truth, it’s probably
both. To be clear, I knew my husband had his role. He did need to grow. But the light bulb moment for me was when I realized that my power resided in how I chose to conduct myself — in how I treated him and how well I chose to love him, regardless of whether I felt he “deserved” it.
I had to learn how to step out of my own pain and frustration so I could hold his. I learned how to create joy and peace for myself and not outsource it to him or others. I gave cheerfully rather than counting all the things I thought were unfair. I cultivated gratitude in place of bitterness and resentment. By focusing on myself, I (slowly) stopped obsessing over his faults.
Over time, he reciprocated. Never exactly in the way I wanted. And I learned to accept and love him as he was, not for who I wanted him to become.
I went first. Not him. I changed and that changed our marriage. I do not see that as losing myself. I felt 10-feet tall for the first time in a long time. I actually liked myself and my life, which I was actively writing in my own hand, not his.
To be clear, I don't think a therapist validating your spouse's perspective is toxic. I'm glad you were able to alter your perspective and retain your marriage. I don't think anyone is thinking the men are the only problem. It is the dynamic. It is the dance. I don't think many divorced women are remarrying and facing the same situation. Most divorced women I know never want to reenter that arena because they know the fights will be the same. That there is something inherent in hetero marriage that can leave you trapped in a soul destroying situation. I also think that some pairings are particularly painful to each person. And if it doesn't get better, aka neither one of your feels loved and respected the way you want to be loved and respected, it is best to get out than to continually inflict harm on one another all in service to an ideal, aka the never ending marriage.
I love this for you! It really makes me happy that you were able to navigate towards this new dynamic. I know exactly what you’re talking about with people leaving a relationship, just to find themselves in a similar situation. It’s something I’ve feared for myself, and so I’ve spent the last several years learning to tend to my own needs, validate myself, focus on the things that bring me joy, appreciate the good around me. But, for us, this ended up making things worse. I think the dynamics of our relationship are just far too tangled and our dynamics have become incredibly toxic. Outside of the relationship, I can find peace of mind, happiness, joy. But together, it’s just constant conflict. I mean, am I missing something?! Does it take more than a few years?! How’d you do it?! I really love the life we built together, but I don’t like who we’ve become together. It’s just wild…
I’m so glad you’ve grown so much and have peace and joy regardless of what your spouse does! Only each person knows if/when enough time has passed to see whether anything will take root. For me, it took a few years. Our growth was so slow, we almost missed the new shoots coming up.
Also, Cindy, asking rhetorically, how is it that you affirming or complimenting his essence is going to make a dent in his behavior when the patriarchy is raining down on him with validation of his behaviors?! You can’t compete! Just a bit of affirmation for ya! 💗
I was badly hurt by couples therapy, and I’d like to find a way to share it. Thank you for what you’ve written.
I'd be happy to share your perspective anonymously if you'd like to reach out directly.
I avoid couples who wear the longevity of their marriage on their sleeve. There should be NO prize for staying married. I am divorced, and I stayed married way too long. It's normal for people to change and grow. It's nice to grow at the same rate and in the same direction, but it's not a given. There should be no shame for moving on when it's necessary.
100% this.
Yes! It would be good if we all avoid praising people who wear any of their "accomplishments" on their sleeve -- whether it is a long marriage, the number of children/grandchildren they have, or their career accomplishments. The best, most honorable people I have known in my life don't show any of it "on their sleeve" - they are not publicly lauded and applauded (so many pretend to humbly accept praise, but in fact they set up the situation in which they are "surprised" by public praise!), but instead quietly keep doing what is right. May God send us more of these, please.
I had a useless couples therapist who couldn’t spot coercive control, took his side in everything, and gave me “intimacy exercises” instead of an escape plan! She just helped him torture me further. For a year.
Oh my god that phrase “intimacy exercises instead of an escape plan” could have been the title of this piece! I’m so sorry that happened but sadly I think it is all too common when therapists aren’t trained to identify these forms of abuse.
Thanks for the shoutout! Tracy and I just finished our edit on a couples therapy episode too, it’s dropping next week! Must be something in the water…
Ooooh, can't wait to listen! I do think that for the first time people are unpacking something that we have just assumed is a positive for the ways it can do damage.
I am finding a particularly harmful couple's therapy guru (particularly in Christian and Catholic ciricles) is called The Gottman Institute. They are nationally (possibly internationally) known and lauded. They claim that they rule out abuse first, but how do they rule it out? Their therapist missed the boat on tons of stories I have heard. Also, how often do they rule out the abuse? There should be a "check" done at least once a month during therapy to be sure no red flags of abuse are there. Horrifyingly, Gottman Institute also claims that only a small percentage of the couples they "help" are dealing with "characterological" (as opposed to "situational" anger) abusive person. I think they are dead wrong on the magnitude of the problem. I think many, many couples are dealing with a characterologically abusive person (ie permanently abusive rather than situation to situation). All of their researched seems skewed due to this. I really think they are dangerous if they so easily dismiss abusive persons. Besides - look at their website - the Gottman couple's own photo is EVERYWHERE on it -- totally look like it's about them, not about helping others. Wish the Christian world would wake up to them.
This is exactly what I need to read right now as my husband and I start couples counseling next week. Thank you for sharing!
I have also been harmed by therapists in the past- I had a therapist see me and a former partner while he was in active addiction- which is WILD and soooo unethical. Looking back I'm furious at how much money I spent when I clearly needed to leave that relationship ASAP. She was also my personal therapist which is even grosser.
Also the thrall of monogamy culture and lack of sexual education for many many therapists and confronting their own biases really impacts marriage family counseling. I had a therapist shame me and my oldest child's son when were attempting open relating... while I'm glad I am no longer in that relationship, I do see how harmful her insistence on us stopping our other relationships instead of actually MEETING US where we were at reinforced some awful beliefs about sexuality and intimate life. Not to mention other individual counselors who have shamed me.
Thankfully now I have a wonderful personal therapist, and this couples counselor we meet with next week after in initial intake seems well versed and skilled. He understood right away what I meant when I mentioned the gender care gap and gendered norms in cis-het marriages. so wish us luck!
More of this, please. Thank you for sharing 💕💕
My couples therapy was pretty bad, and expensive, and didn't save the marriage. After the first meeting, the therapist pulled me aside to tell me that the marriage was abusive—that I was being abused. But instead of having the sense to get out then, I stuck it out for two more years trying to become somebody my ex would be nice to.
I think our therapist was trying to get me to realize that the situation was hopeless, but my conditioning to never give up was too strong. I don't know if the problem was that the lesson wasn't clear, or that I was just too dull to grasp it.
Was our therapy a success or a failure? I'm still not sure.
Well, I am glad that therapist did that but I also know that sometimes we cannot see the abuse until we see it with our own eyes. And yes, the conditioning to make it work is SO strong no matter your background. You put in the work, you stick it out, you try another therapist. This is what I wish we could address more. That forever love is not the goal if it doesn't feel like love.
That's great the counselor privately told you their concerns! Did the therapist offer your trauma-related/abuse-related resources like an abuse counselor? That might have been a next step. It has got to become more normal for all counselors to first STOP and assess (really, truly, deeply) assess whether there is any chance that abuse is happening. Almost like, counselors should send the couple individaully to an abuse evaluator or something. Ofcourse, malignant abusers will know how to play off this...
No, no referral to outside resources. At least I was never in any physical peril.
This is excellent Cindy--it's SUCH an important topic! Super glad you are taking this on!
Thank you!
Ooof… this hit hard. I’ve spent the last week wondering if I should email an old couple’s therapist who caused me significant damage with her advice, without really knowing or understanding our history or the problems affecting our marriage. She just saw my anger and resentments and said that was the problem. Not the reason behind my anger, not the fact that the pattern I was angry about was happening before her very eyes and she couldn’t recognize it. We’ve seen several marriage counselors and it’s only illuminated the problems of our dynamics further while tiptoeing around the solutions (if there even were any) and telling us to “trust the process.” Now I see how incompatible we are given our personality types and I just wish one of these therapists would’ve just called it out for us.
I'm so sorry this was your experience. I get it that no one can tell you your marriage is over except yourself (or your spouse). But I do wish there was more of a process when you start therapy of giving it a certain amount of time and then you do a check in and yes, ideally, the therapist provides advice as to whether improvements are being made or whether this is an intractable battle. That there were more easy off ramps to marriage and that these professionals helped you get there. I feel like couples therapists are there to maintain the marriage and then you need a divorce coach once you decide to leave. Ideally marriage therapists could even help you negotiate some of the terms of your divorce.... they have seen your dynamics firsthand and be a way to help keep things amicable as you go your separate ways. But instead, we tend to just stop seeing them once we decide when we could perhaps really use them in the transition.
Beautifully put, and I’ve often contemplated doing the same thing. My ex was emotionally and financially abusive. Our therapist did so much damage by not acknowledging what was in front of her, and made me feel like I was to blame. I’ll never forget the burning injustice of sitting there wondering what stopped her from calling out what was in front of her, especially since she was much more direct with me than him. I was more willing to cooperate with the process and I think I was just an easier, more malleable person to work with. She really should have known better.
I'm looking forward to reading more of your perspective on this topic! I'm a couples therapist doing Terry Real's training for many of the reasons you mentioned.
His training could really turn the tides of the industry I hope!
Do you think Terry Real is good? I just glanced at the website - unless I'm mistaken, it still seems to prioritize the relationship over the individual, which is backwards. For one, it counsels the couple together which is always a bad idea in abuse. On the other hand, it seems he is trying to bring in actual mental health/personality disorder awareness (rather than the same old hum drum 'communication' talk).
The problem with couples therapy lies in incentives. You're paying for every session with them. The longer you must go to couples therapy, the more money the therapist makes. It's a perverse system. I'm not saying couples therapy can't be helpful or won't help one's relationship, but you have to go in with one simple fact in mind: they want you to keep attending.
I had a similar experience. I wanted to end the marriage, and instead we spent 5 months trying to "reconnect." The therapist suggested we have more sex (since one of my complaints was that we never had sex), but having sex with someone you no longer want to be with did not improve the relationship. Deciding to go our separate ways did.
Ugh, yes the sex battle when I am like there is a reason sex is not being had and we can't start there! But so often they ask you to!
The two times we tried marital counseling were deeply traumatic for me. The first time, when I said I felt like I was being abused, the counselor interrupted me with a dismissive “no you’re not,” and an eye roll, and then told me I needed to be long suffering with my husband and to read the book Love and Respect.
The second was an intern. My ex husband didn’t show up for the zoom call. I told her some of my concerns about the abuse I was experiencing, and she cut our session short and then told me that I needed to tell him what we discussed, and that if I didn’t, she would. And then she asked me during our next session if I had told him what we’d talked about. She put me in even more danger than I was already in.
Don’t ever ever ever go to couples counseling with an abuser
those are horrible experiences! especially the 2nd counselor saying she'd tell on you! how awful!
Not just saying she’d tell on me, she MADE ME do it and then verified during a session in front of him!!
Sometimes the Viet Nam war is the best model: declare victory and get out. You had a marriage, you made a family, you lived, you learned - now this season is done and that’s fine.