Our divorce was legally over on February 28. I was ordered to pay a small amount of child support. We split extra curriculars and split home repairs (he is staying for two years and I get a larger % later).
He has already told me he can’t afford gymnastics (she was in it before the divorce) and he’s not paying the plumbing bill. So I’m not paying child support. Why did we waste $30,000 on this then? Mind you these things I’m talking about are small hundreds not even close to my attorney fees.
Control
Control
Control
I actually thought he’d be kind of reasonable about things for our daughter since he was so adamant about his son playing football when I first met him….
Nope
I want to start a weekly post about the ridiculous things he says and does and then thinks I’m the selfish crazy and stupid one.
I want everyone to know how he is.
I’m tired of the double standards, the misogyny and him playing the victim. If I did half the things he does I’d be torn apart by his family.
I divorced in 2008-2010 (yes, it took 2 years, 2 custody suits, and a 2-day trial). Oh, the stories I could tell! Until 2014, the barrage of emails detailing my incompetent parenting, analyzing my schedule for infractions of the decree, etc etc were relentless. In 2014, my ex sued for custody AGAIN—he really hated that he had to pay taxes! I negotiated that the older of the 2 children still at home could live full-time with my ex. Within 4 months of that agreement, that son quit taking my calls, dropped out of high school, wouldn’t get a job, etc etc. The harassment stopped (finally), but in the long run I lost my son.
Co-parenting was never a term that worked for me/us — it just wasn’t possible with the ex I had. I finally surrendered to the term “parallel parenting” and decided to rebuild from there. Until my last son graduated & the child support ended, I focused on rebuilding my emotional stability. It took ~10 years to regain my financial stability. I worked 2 jobs most of the time, or 1 job & 2 side hustles (I was a teacher, so of course!).
Does it ever end? Well, yes, but not until you finish sharing ANY responsibility for those kids. Again, I have so many stories! Life does find its new normal, but not in the rosy timeframe that ANY divorce advice book ever tells you. I am happy now, have been for quite a while, in spite of 2008-2014. Hang in there! I’m not the same person I was in 2008 or 2014 or 2020. This will change you, and if you let it, it will make you into a wiser, more empathetic woman. A woman who has a LOT of stories to share! Ha! BTW— a divorce coach was the saving grace through all of my journey. We are deep friends to this day.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I have found that yes, I still need my coach because one of the hardest things about these experiences is you feel so alone and none of your friends/family know how to help you. Sadly i had to pay people to feel like someone was helping me (and this was outside of my own work in therapy!). I needed someone who had walked someone through this before. This is why I think we need these stories out there. I want the wisdom of others. I need it like oxygen
Thank you for saying this! The continued fighting and attempt at control inflicted by an ex is so draining. For me, it meant more legal fees and my time; but the largest loss for me was my joy. So I decided to stop fighting because that is what he wanted. He wanted to continue to control me and the kids. Small, sad pathetic men always do. So I made do with less but I made sure everyone knew he didn't contribute to anything - braces, extra curriculars, education - anything. Especially the children. I was warned to be silent and I refused. Truth dies in the darkness.
Yes, I am still trying to figure out how to keep my joy. Can I ask what your custody situation is? How long did you fight before you stopped? I agree that it is often a desire for control and this is how they can wield it. Oh my gosh, yes the pressure to keep silent about all of it. I can't tell you the amount of adrenaline I felt even publishing this post. But silence serves no one but them.
Both children decided to live with me exclusively within a year or so of the separation. I made sure they were prepared to speak in court that he was angry, abusive and inconsistent as a parent. He had stopped paying before that. First it started with extra curriculars - my daughter didn’t need to play volleyball like all her friends. Then my son didn’t need to have braces. While he vacationed with his new girlfriend in Europe. I am very fortunate to have a good job and family to help me.
The legal system is designed to perpetuate the abuse. I knew my ex would never want to be humiliated in court if the kids shared what he was like to live with. My kids were old enough to decide (in Canada there is no specific age where they can decide - just maturity)
It was scary for me too. I am a people pleaser and never learned to stand up for myself. I am so proud of both my kids that they stood up for themselves and drew a boundary. I promised them that I would defend that boundary every way I could. They barely see him now. When they do, they usually come home crushed by some cruel thing he says. I will never understand how someone can be willing to hurt their children in order to hurt their ex. I allow them have whatever relationship they chose with him or his family. He is ensuring it will be very minimal with him. They see his parents and I have a good relationship with them.
My custody situation is supposed to be 50/50. Both children chose to live with me after about 6 months in the case of my daughter. My son decided about a year after that. I sent one legal letter so very short legal fight. I felt like I won already. I did not share my kids. i did not have to deal with him. and it was worth every penny. My daughter was 12 and my son was 14 when they made those decisions. I told them i would back them so long as they backed me if we ever went to to a judge. He stopped paying after my son made his decision.
I will not lie to my kids. I understand what you mean about the fear. It gets easier every time you speak your truth.
Truth dies in the darkness is so true. In my state all divorce decrees include a no disparagement clause…which means my kids are not supposed to know about the restraining order, that I pay all his bills, and on and on. When they’re adults they sure as hell will know - how else can I help them avoid the same mistakes?
I can’t believe non disparagement is required in your state! We have it in our parenting plan (which I understand the point of but you are right, it leaves you feeling unable to be honest with your children). One of our final negotiation points was he wanted me to include no disparagement in public (podcast/writing) and I was like no. This is a hill I will die on. You will not silence me. But even with the kids, it’s like: well, is it disparagement if they hear about a text he sent? I’m not saying anything bad about him. Just the truth. I don’t see how the truth should be disparagement.
I was told not to tell my kids too. Letters from his lawyers. A mediator. But I refused to lie to my children.When my kids asked “Why can we not go on vacation” or “why cannot I “insert expensive extracurricular” - the only answer I can give my kids is the truth and that is because mommy cannot afford it because your daddy doesn’t pay his share. He made that choice and he can live with the consequences. It was funny how no one wanted to go to a judge though because then we would have to address the non payment of child support. And really…which is the worst offence. Telling the truth to your children about finances or not contributing financially for their care? This is how I see the conversation going … “omg judge, she told my kids I don’t pay her child support - she disparaged me….she is a bad bad woman …oh …Uhm… Why yes…no I don’t pay…why should I have to support the kids I made? Oh you think I am a deadbeat waste of human organs? Yes judge, I guess I am ”
And disparagement is so subjective. His major thing is not wanting the kids to know I pay his rent and the majority of his bills. Like my dude, you’re willfully underemployed while I bust my ass to sustain two households….but the kids shouldn’t know?! They know.
Do you pay his bill via spousal support and/or child support? And yes I agree that kids pick up on everything. So to keep the truth from them just makes them lose trust in you!
You are definitely not alone! I was married to my first husband for 13 years and we’ve been apart now since 2014 and we’re still trying to get along. The first five years were the worst. We separated when my son was 4 (he’s 15 now) and there have been so many ups and downs. I always say my ex showed his anger most when I hit him in the wallet, but he really, really dislikes me to this day.
If anything, I’m just so grateful our son seems to be happy and feels loved. I’m almost out of co-parenting but at times it felt like a horrible prison. Not sure if this is helpful but I got an accountant who specializes in divorce tax filings. In Canada filing taxes as separate parents is crazy, with the expectation that the two of you agree on anything. You can guess how that goes.
Feel free to DM me if you ever want to ask questions about anything at all, one thing I’m grateful for is that I’ve learned a lot of lessons and I’m very happy to share what I know (I’m also very happy to just offer words of support!!) xo
"This is when women give up." I could feel the resignation of this in my bones. Thank you so much for writing this, for sharing the call for submissions, and for giving voice to what so many of us have lived. The lack of recourse is maddening and paralyzing. This was wonderfully written. ♥️
All of this just hits the nail on the head. I am sorry you are experiencing this. I am and have experienced the same thing. And what I can't get past is - how is this really the solution? How is this expected to work...like ever? A couple typically gets a divorce because they don't work well together (I am aware this is too generalized of a statement but sometimes that is what you are left with), so they decide to go their separate ways. But when kids are involved, there is no going your separate ways, so you are expected to "get along" for the kids. You are expected to make decisions that are "best for the kids." This requires both parties to get along, which they don't do well. Hence, the divorce. So the recourse is the court system? A system that is so expensive, inefficient, bogged down in black and white. It is meant to decide on something that is decidedly gray and murky. How does this make sense? We expect different because our logical, innate selves can't truly believe that things are really set-up like this. And yet they are.
An alternative in my mind would be to get divorce out of the courts. Instead of lawyers, require each party to work with licensed therapists, psychologists, etc. They are less expensive and instead of writing up documents that DON'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE and in the end don't help, they can help you see how you are approaching things and how you can do better. Because at the end of the day divorce shouldn't be about control, but it seems like so many people are able to use it as a form of control through the legal process. OR address marriages from the beginning. Make getting married just as hard as getting divorced. Require each party to meet with a therapist, lawyer, financial advisor. Require pre-nuptial agreements. I know there are so many holes and flaws in these ideas, but THERE HAS TO BE A DIFFERENT WAY.
I agree. I think marriage as an institution is flawed and destructive for women which is why I think we are moving away from it but I also think if we could communicate clearly how fucked up the divorce process is, it could keep people from getting married until there is a different way out of it. In the meantime, I have thought about working to create a kind of web portal where women could get easy access to a judge and affordable legal counsel to address noncompliance so it didn't have to go through the courts. Kind of like how you can hire a private judge to stamp your decree, if we could find a way to have private judges on task for this kind of work only, and pro bono lawyers who understand that women are the ones getting financially screwed by fighting for compliance, maybe at least this wrinkle of the system could be less complex and devastating.
As an attorney, I agree. Unfortunately, though without the court system there's no way to legally enforce anything. I think a good solution (for now) is there to be legal aid layers available for all low income people seeking a divorce. There are a few, but they usually require a party to be subject to domestic violence. I know this is a pipe dream. Legal aid programs barely have enough funds to help the people in these situations.
In my opinion, the state should play the role of a spouse. So, people who have children together don’t need to get married or share assets. Everyone is treated like a single parent and the caregiver receives a fixed amount from the state for each child.
Obviously a pipe dream scenario for the United States (yet more or less how Denmark works, according to some friends), but if we’re talking about other ways to do things…
I remember when I received an email from my ex-husband at 11:00pm on a Tuesday evening, informing me he didn’t think he was required to pay child support anymore and that I had received my last payment. He was SHOCKED when I told him that’s not how things worked and my lawyer would be in touch. Too long a story for all the details here (and eventually everything was resolved in a way that was equitable to myself and my son), but the gall that he thought he could dismiss a legal document at his personal discretion was a reminder of all the reasons I had to leave him all over again. No, I never wanted to get divorced, but I also knew I could not stay in the marriage, and while it was the hardest thing I ever did (even harder than getting sober), it was the best decision of my entire adult life and strengthened me into becoming the woman I am today.
I’m sorry you are finding yourself in a similar complicated situation.
to be in battle with a narcissist and continues to demonstrate how the system is stacked against women. i appreciate all you bring to light through your newsletter.
Thanks for putting into words the truth so many of us our living. I celebrated my divorce just over a month ago, and I’m already documenting for what (hopefully won’t) but probably will, end up a motion to try to get compliance.
Oh my gosh, I love how I wrote this entire post and didn't use the actual term - noncompliance. But yes, I hate that already you are back to paying legal bills. And even if it doesn't come to that, the uncertainty is what terrorizes.
I'm reading this on a day when I've just filed more papers before a first hearing on... noncompliance on Monday. Because I'm vocal here online, he's labeled me mentally unfit. I've tried for years to get him to follow the order we agreed to with no luck. It's exhausting and like a commenter mentioned below can steal your joy. My goal is to keep my peace, joy and friends around me.
Yes, I am doing so much internal work to not let it disrupt my internal peace of mind. I honestly feel like that is why they do it. Because it pains them to see us thriving without them.
Oh I could tell stories about my abusive ex too! Unfortunately our coparent counselor was horrible. There are documented reports of her engaging in shady stuff in other cases designed to keep parents paying fees. She exacerbated the abuse from my ex and every session re-triggered and re-traumatized me and I think she did it to keep me having to pay her fees! And I’m still unable to coparent with him. Even parallel parenting is so hard because of his controlling abuse. I want to move but he won’t let me. He had his lawyer send me a letter saying he will never let me leave. My youngest is 14. Counting the days until she’s 18. Then I’m moving so far away.
Wow yeah didn’t think about a coparent counselor making things worse and abusing the system. I haven’t really done the research yet in terms of what parallel parenting entails but guess it is time too.
This is a big fear of mine. Our divorce is not yet finalized, but every time I think I'm OK the downward slope of this hellscape, there is a reminder that this will never end. It is utterly demoralizing to know that the peacekeeping to protect myself and my daughter will never end. Our co-parenting relationship will never be equitable no matter what the legal documents say. The allure of giving up is real, and I absolutely understand why women need to.
I know. I'm so sorry. I honestly wonder about mandated coparent counseling once per month and if he skips, a fine that accrues? But then again, how do you get the fine paid? But by having a mandated session where these things are discussed with a neutral party so things can't just devolve? But that coparent counselor doesn't have court authority. Sadly, I feel like the issues in your marriage just morph into issues in your parenting relationship. I'm still learning how to cope and will try and write honestly about it in this space so we don't feel so alone. If I could go back, I would have focused more on whether our custody split was best for the kids. I knew if I challenged 50/50, our entire negotiation would go up in flames. The other thing is, no matter where things end up, some men will only see themselves as the victim so it doesn't matter what you do, it would always end up in this place, them angry and trying to exert the control they feel like they lost in the divorce negotiations. Not to be a buzz kill or anything.
Oh my goodness! Yes. The 50/50 custody thing is what has blown negotiations to smithereens. My dream of keeping the peace through this just wasn't realistic or healthy in any way.
Thank you for the work you are doing on your Substack. I feel seen, heard, and sane. It has given me the courage to share my own story.
We just filed the divorce papers and are waiting for the judge to sign. We don’t have kids so just went through mediation to keep things simple.
I found out a week before signing that my ex has been lying to me this whole time about his cheating. While I shouldn’t be surprised, I gave him multiple opportunities to just tell me the truth. The fact that he wouldn’t just devastates me in a way he cannot comprehend. I feel like he just sh*t over the last 25 years we spent together.
Oh and did I mention he also has a problem with alcohol and drugs - good times.
Thanks for having a space to vent. I’m sure I’ll be back.
The post-divorce battles that I'm trying to figure out all seem to relate to medical/emotional issues, things that the parenting plan couldn't possibly address. What to do when you share custody and you don't agreed about treatments for your son's ADHD? What to do when you see your daughter binge eating at your house because her dad restricts her food at his house? What to do when your son tells you that he lies to his dad all the time when his dad is in a good mood because he doesn't want to be honest and risk upsetting the mood? What to do when you apologize to your daughter for losing your temper and she says, "I'm used to it. Dad screams at me all the time."
It's tougher than I thought it would be. But still better than being in the marriage that was killing me.
Yes what I hate is that my kids have to live with behavior I was able to escape. I agree that joint decision making is so hard especially when conflict is fuel to some people. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.
I was laid off from my job as a government attorney a few years ago. I took a temporary job as a fill in for a woman on maternity leave as a divorce attorney for 11 months. Never again. It made me hate humanity. I was a public defender for a decade, so stress and awful shit is not foreign to me.
I can’t imagine. I do think this is the norm thus why we need to collect these stories to show how if this is the norm, something is wrong with the system.
And this is why I have decided to stay for eight more years. Thank you for the much needed confirmation that I’m making the right decision for myself and my kids.
Our divorce was legally over on February 28. I was ordered to pay a small amount of child support. We split extra curriculars and split home repairs (he is staying for two years and I get a larger % later).
He has already told me he can’t afford gymnastics (she was in it before the divorce) and he’s not paying the plumbing bill. So I’m not paying child support. Why did we waste $30,000 on this then? Mind you these things I’m talking about are small hundreds not even close to my attorney fees.
Control
Control
Control
I actually thought he’d be kind of reasonable about things for our daughter since he was so adamant about his son playing football when I first met him….
Nope
I want to start a weekly post about the ridiculous things he says and does and then thinks I’m the selfish crazy and stupid one.
I want everyone to know how he is.
I’m tired of the double standards, the misogyny and him playing the victim. If I did half the things he does I’d be torn apart by his family.
I could go on and on.
I feel all of this in my bones.
I divorced in 2008-2010 (yes, it took 2 years, 2 custody suits, and a 2-day trial). Oh, the stories I could tell! Until 2014, the barrage of emails detailing my incompetent parenting, analyzing my schedule for infractions of the decree, etc etc were relentless. In 2014, my ex sued for custody AGAIN—he really hated that he had to pay taxes! I negotiated that the older of the 2 children still at home could live full-time with my ex. Within 4 months of that agreement, that son quit taking my calls, dropped out of high school, wouldn’t get a job, etc etc. The harassment stopped (finally), but in the long run I lost my son.
Co-parenting was never a term that worked for me/us — it just wasn’t possible with the ex I had. I finally surrendered to the term “parallel parenting” and decided to rebuild from there. Until my last son graduated & the child support ended, I focused on rebuilding my emotional stability. It took ~10 years to regain my financial stability. I worked 2 jobs most of the time, or 1 job & 2 side hustles (I was a teacher, so of course!).
Does it ever end? Well, yes, but not until you finish sharing ANY responsibility for those kids. Again, I have so many stories! Life does find its new normal, but not in the rosy timeframe that ANY divorce advice book ever tells you. I am happy now, have been for quite a while, in spite of 2008-2014. Hang in there! I’m not the same person I was in 2008 or 2014 or 2020. This will change you, and if you let it, it will make you into a wiser, more empathetic woman. A woman who has a LOT of stories to share! Ha! BTW— a divorce coach was the saving grace through all of my journey. We are deep friends to this day.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I have found that yes, I still need my coach because one of the hardest things about these experiences is you feel so alone and none of your friends/family know how to help you. Sadly i had to pay people to feel like someone was helping me (and this was outside of my own work in therapy!). I needed someone who had walked someone through this before. This is why I think we need these stories out there. I want the wisdom of others. I need it like oxygen
Thank you for saying this! The continued fighting and attempt at control inflicted by an ex is so draining. For me, it meant more legal fees and my time; but the largest loss for me was my joy. So I decided to stop fighting because that is what he wanted. He wanted to continue to control me and the kids. Small, sad pathetic men always do. So I made do with less but I made sure everyone knew he didn't contribute to anything - braces, extra curriculars, education - anything. Especially the children. I was warned to be silent and I refused. Truth dies in the darkness.
Yes, I am still trying to figure out how to keep my joy. Can I ask what your custody situation is? How long did you fight before you stopped? I agree that it is often a desire for control and this is how they can wield it. Oh my gosh, yes the pressure to keep silent about all of it. I can't tell you the amount of adrenaline I felt even publishing this post. But silence serves no one but them.
Both children decided to live with me exclusively within a year or so of the separation. I made sure they were prepared to speak in court that he was angry, abusive and inconsistent as a parent. He had stopped paying before that. First it started with extra curriculars - my daughter didn’t need to play volleyball like all her friends. Then my son didn’t need to have braces. While he vacationed with his new girlfriend in Europe. I am very fortunate to have a good job and family to help me.
The legal system is designed to perpetuate the abuse. I knew my ex would never want to be humiliated in court if the kids shared what he was like to live with. My kids were old enough to decide (in Canada there is no specific age where they can decide - just maturity)
It was scary for me too. I am a people pleaser and never learned to stand up for myself. I am so proud of both my kids that they stood up for themselves and drew a boundary. I promised them that I would defend that boundary every way I could. They barely see him now. When they do, they usually come home crushed by some cruel thing he says. I will never understand how someone can be willing to hurt their children in order to hurt their ex. I allow them have whatever relationship they chose with him or his family. He is ensuring it will be very minimal with him. They see his parents and I have a good relationship with them.
My custody situation is supposed to be 50/50. Both children chose to live with me after about 6 months in the case of my daughter. My son decided about a year after that. I sent one legal letter so very short legal fight. I felt like I won already. I did not share my kids. i did not have to deal with him. and it was worth every penny. My daughter was 12 and my son was 14 when they made those decisions. I told them i would back them so long as they backed me if we ever went to to a judge. He stopped paying after my son made his decision.
I will not lie to my kids. I understand what you mean about the fear. It gets easier every time you speak your truth.
Truth dies in the darkness is so true. In my state all divorce decrees include a no disparagement clause…which means my kids are not supposed to know about the restraining order, that I pay all his bills, and on and on. When they’re adults they sure as hell will know - how else can I help them avoid the same mistakes?
I can’t believe non disparagement is required in your state! We have it in our parenting plan (which I understand the point of but you are right, it leaves you feeling unable to be honest with your children). One of our final negotiation points was he wanted me to include no disparagement in public (podcast/writing) and I was like no. This is a hill I will die on. You will not silence me. But even with the kids, it’s like: well, is it disparagement if they hear about a text he sent? I’m not saying anything bad about him. Just the truth. I don’t see how the truth should be disparagement.
I was told not to tell my kids too. Letters from his lawyers. A mediator. But I refused to lie to my children.When my kids asked “Why can we not go on vacation” or “why cannot I “insert expensive extracurricular” - the only answer I can give my kids is the truth and that is because mommy cannot afford it because your daddy doesn’t pay his share. He made that choice and he can live with the consequences. It was funny how no one wanted to go to a judge though because then we would have to address the non payment of child support. And really…which is the worst offence. Telling the truth to your children about finances or not contributing financially for their care? This is how I see the conversation going … “omg judge, she told my kids I don’t pay her child support - she disparaged me….she is a bad bad woman …oh …Uhm… Why yes…no I don’t pay…why should I have to support the kids I made? Oh you think I am a deadbeat waste of human organs? Yes judge, I guess I am ”
And disparagement is so subjective. His major thing is not wanting the kids to know I pay his rent and the majority of his bills. Like my dude, you’re willfully underemployed while I bust my ass to sustain two households….but the kids shouldn’t know?! They know.
Do you pay his bill via spousal support and/or child support? And yes I agree that kids pick up on everything. So to keep the truth from them just makes them lose trust in you!
It’s a weird arrangement - he gets a “housing allowance” for the next 5 years that in his current place covers his rent plus $800/month.
You are definitely not alone! I was married to my first husband for 13 years and we’ve been apart now since 2014 and we’re still trying to get along. The first five years were the worst. We separated when my son was 4 (he’s 15 now) and there have been so many ups and downs. I always say my ex showed his anger most when I hit him in the wallet, but he really, really dislikes me to this day.
If anything, I’m just so grateful our son seems to be happy and feels loved. I’m almost out of co-parenting but at times it felt like a horrible prison. Not sure if this is helpful but I got an accountant who specializes in divorce tax filings. In Canada filing taxes as separate parents is crazy, with the expectation that the two of you agree on anything. You can guess how that goes.
Feel free to DM me if you ever want to ask questions about anything at all, one thing I’m grateful for is that I’ve learned a lot of lessons and I’m very happy to share what I know (I’m also very happy to just offer words of support!!) xo
Thank you! I may reach out!
"This is when women give up." I could feel the resignation of this in my bones. Thank you so much for writing this, for sharing the call for submissions, and for giving voice to what so many of us have lived. The lack of recourse is maddening and paralyzing. This was wonderfully written. ♥️
Thank you!
Thank you for advocating for women.
All of this just hits the nail on the head. I am sorry you are experiencing this. I am and have experienced the same thing. And what I can't get past is - how is this really the solution? How is this expected to work...like ever? A couple typically gets a divorce because they don't work well together (I am aware this is too generalized of a statement but sometimes that is what you are left with), so they decide to go their separate ways. But when kids are involved, there is no going your separate ways, so you are expected to "get along" for the kids. You are expected to make decisions that are "best for the kids." This requires both parties to get along, which they don't do well. Hence, the divorce. So the recourse is the court system? A system that is so expensive, inefficient, bogged down in black and white. It is meant to decide on something that is decidedly gray and murky. How does this make sense? We expect different because our logical, innate selves can't truly believe that things are really set-up like this. And yet they are.
I agree wholeheartedly. How is this the system? But also, what would an alternative look like?
An alternative in my mind would be to get divorce out of the courts. Instead of lawyers, require each party to work with licensed therapists, psychologists, etc. They are less expensive and instead of writing up documents that DON'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE and in the end don't help, they can help you see how you are approaching things and how you can do better. Because at the end of the day divorce shouldn't be about control, but it seems like so many people are able to use it as a form of control through the legal process. OR address marriages from the beginning. Make getting married just as hard as getting divorced. Require each party to meet with a therapist, lawyer, financial advisor. Require pre-nuptial agreements. I know there are so many holes and flaws in these ideas, but THERE HAS TO BE A DIFFERENT WAY.
I agree. I think marriage as an institution is flawed and destructive for women which is why I think we are moving away from it but I also think if we could communicate clearly how fucked up the divorce process is, it could keep people from getting married until there is a different way out of it. In the meantime, I have thought about working to create a kind of web portal where women could get easy access to a judge and affordable legal counsel to address noncompliance so it didn't have to go through the courts. Kind of like how you can hire a private judge to stamp your decree, if we could find a way to have private judges on task for this kind of work only, and pro bono lawyers who understand that women are the ones getting financially screwed by fighting for compliance, maybe at least this wrinkle of the system could be less complex and devastating.
As an attorney, I agree. Unfortunately, though without the court system there's no way to legally enforce anything. I think a good solution (for now) is there to be legal aid layers available for all low income people seeking a divorce. There are a few, but they usually require a party to be subject to domestic violence. I know this is a pipe dream. Legal aid programs barely have enough funds to help the people in these situations.
In my opinion, the state should play the role of a spouse. So, people who have children together don’t need to get married or share assets. Everyone is treated like a single parent and the caregiver receives a fixed amount from the state for each child.
Obviously a pipe dream scenario for the United States (yet more or less how Denmark works, according to some friends), but if we’re talking about other ways to do things…
I remember when I received an email from my ex-husband at 11:00pm on a Tuesday evening, informing me he didn’t think he was required to pay child support anymore and that I had received my last payment. He was SHOCKED when I told him that’s not how things worked and my lawyer would be in touch. Too long a story for all the details here (and eventually everything was resolved in a way that was equitable to myself and my son), but the gall that he thought he could dismiss a legal document at his personal discretion was a reminder of all the reasons I had to leave him all over again. No, I never wanted to get divorced, but I also knew I could not stay in the marriage, and while it was the hardest thing I ever did (even harder than getting sober), it was the best decision of my entire adult life and strengthened me into becoming the woman I am today.
I’m sorry you are finding yourself in a similar complicated situation.
My blood boils reading your account. I'm glad it was resolved.
to be in battle with a narcissist and continues to demonstrate how the system is stacked against women. i appreciate all you bring to light through your newsletter.
Thanks for putting into words the truth so many of us our living. I celebrated my divorce just over a month ago, and I’m already documenting for what (hopefully won’t) but probably will, end up a motion to try to get compliance.
Oh my gosh, I love how I wrote this entire post and didn't use the actual term - noncompliance. But yes, I hate that already you are back to paying legal bills. And even if it doesn't come to that, the uncertainty is what terrorizes.
I'm reading this on a day when I've just filed more papers before a first hearing on... noncompliance on Monday. Because I'm vocal here online, he's labeled me mentally unfit. I've tried for years to get him to follow the order we agreed to with no luck. It's exhausting and like a commenter mentioned below can steal your joy. My goal is to keep my peace, joy and friends around me.
Yes, I am doing so much internal work to not let it disrupt my internal peace of mind. I honestly feel like that is why they do it. Because it pains them to see us thriving without them.
Oh I could tell stories about my abusive ex too! Unfortunately our coparent counselor was horrible. There are documented reports of her engaging in shady stuff in other cases designed to keep parents paying fees. She exacerbated the abuse from my ex and every session re-triggered and re-traumatized me and I think she did it to keep me having to pay her fees! And I’m still unable to coparent with him. Even parallel parenting is so hard because of his controlling abuse. I want to move but he won’t let me. He had his lawyer send me a letter saying he will never let me leave. My youngest is 14. Counting the days until she’s 18. Then I’m moving so far away.
Wow yeah didn’t think about a coparent counselor making things worse and abusing the system. I haven’t really done the research yet in terms of what parallel parenting entails but guess it is time too.
This is a big fear of mine. Our divorce is not yet finalized, but every time I think I'm OK the downward slope of this hellscape, there is a reminder that this will never end. It is utterly demoralizing to know that the peacekeeping to protect myself and my daughter will never end. Our co-parenting relationship will never be equitable no matter what the legal documents say. The allure of giving up is real, and I absolutely understand why women need to.
I know. I'm so sorry. I honestly wonder about mandated coparent counseling once per month and if he skips, a fine that accrues? But then again, how do you get the fine paid? But by having a mandated session where these things are discussed with a neutral party so things can't just devolve? But that coparent counselor doesn't have court authority. Sadly, I feel like the issues in your marriage just morph into issues in your parenting relationship. I'm still learning how to cope and will try and write honestly about it in this space so we don't feel so alone. If I could go back, I would have focused more on whether our custody split was best for the kids. I knew if I challenged 50/50, our entire negotiation would go up in flames. The other thing is, no matter where things end up, some men will only see themselves as the victim so it doesn't matter what you do, it would always end up in this place, them angry and trying to exert the control they feel like they lost in the divorce negotiations. Not to be a buzz kill or anything.
Oh my goodness! Yes. The 50/50 custody thing is what has blown negotiations to smithereens. My dream of keeping the peace through this just wasn't realistic or healthy in any way.
Thank you for the work you are doing on your Substack. I feel seen, heard, and sane. It has given me the courage to share my own story.
We just filed the divorce papers and are waiting for the judge to sign. We don’t have kids so just went through mediation to keep things simple.
I found out a week before signing that my ex has been lying to me this whole time about his cheating. While I shouldn’t be surprised, I gave him multiple opportunities to just tell me the truth. The fact that he wouldn’t just devastates me in a way he cannot comprehend. I feel like he just sh*t over the last 25 years we spent together.
Oh and did I mention he also has a problem with alcohol and drugs - good times.
Thanks for having a space to vent. I’m sure I’ll be back.
I’m so sorry. Betrayal is hard especially when paired with gaslighting. I’m glad you are getting free.
The post-divorce battles that I'm trying to figure out all seem to relate to medical/emotional issues, things that the parenting plan couldn't possibly address. What to do when you share custody and you don't agreed about treatments for your son's ADHD? What to do when you see your daughter binge eating at your house because her dad restricts her food at his house? What to do when your son tells you that he lies to his dad all the time when his dad is in a good mood because he doesn't want to be honest and risk upsetting the mood? What to do when you apologize to your daughter for losing your temper and she says, "I'm used to it. Dad screams at me all the time."
It's tougher than I thought it would be. But still better than being in the marriage that was killing me.
Yes what I hate is that my kids have to live with behavior I was able to escape. I agree that joint decision making is so hard especially when conflict is fuel to some people. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.
I was laid off from my job as a government attorney a few years ago. I took a temporary job as a fill in for a woman on maternity leave as a divorce attorney for 11 months. Never again. It made me hate humanity. I was a public defender for a decade, so stress and awful shit is not foreign to me.
I can’t imagine. I do think this is the norm thus why we need to collect these stories to show how if this is the norm, something is wrong with the system.
And this is why I have decided to stay for eight more years. Thank you for the much needed confirmation that I’m making the right decision for myself and my kids.
I’m so sorry and I also understand. I hate this for you and hope we can fix the system so women like you do not have to stay